vsync
#41
^ im not a programer so i dont know what these things look like from the inside. all i know is what im observing.

there is a problem here. a mix of frame-base and c-state. tweaking c-state to hold a clockrate, any clockrate, even a slower clockrate! makes Descent smoother.

im not sure what the EVGA program is doing but its obviously tricking Descent into running smoother with vsync on @60hz & 60fps. it seems like Descent might be thinking its running faster then that.

the EVGA program is working miracles, its like a whole different game. everything is much much smoother.

for my CPU ~ i locked it @ 1.2ghz, the low c-state of what is normally 1.6ghz, proving slower runs better.

:o
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#42
Usually even if your CPU is changing clock speeds constantly, it should not be too much of an issue. On my eeePC the clock changes constantly as well - without a hitch. It's probably more likely that VSync stalls the program for too long. Tho it's still not obvious to me, why this happens. So far, I am unable to reproduce your issue. So I am stumbling in the dark right now. But from what I see: do ALL of you experiencing this problem use EVGA cards?
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
Uhm... Honey, there's a head in the toilet!
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#43
EVGA precision is just the program, i have an ASUS gf610 card.

vsync is issue here yes. game does not react well to vsync @ 60hz without some help. the EVGA program ( targetframerate = 60 ) seems to trick Descent somehow.

ingame vsync is OFF
nv vsync is FORCED ON
triple buffer is ON
thread optimize is OFF
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#44
If simply setting VSync externally or disabling VSync altogether solves all your issues, i recommend staying with that. As i have mentioned before, the DXX builtin VSync is done via a -by now - deprecated function and has to be overhauled. Tho before you were saying you have issues without vsync, too. Is this still truer? Or does dxx run smooth and in constant speed now w/o vsync?

Btw for asll further posts, make sure tomlet me know how the game behaves with and without vsync or externally forced vsync and let me know about your hardware details.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
Uhm... Honey, there's a head in the toilet!
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#45
^ its not really possible to compare vsync to no vsync for me because i find no vsync to be horribly distracting (screen tearing) and uncomfortable (to my eyes) to play. if i had to play w/o vsync id probably stop playing. fortunately the EVGA program is working very well.

it seems to me that 60fps (60hz vsync) is too slow for Descent, animations and physics are getting messed up and choppy. anything higher plays better.

the EVGA program may be running after-the-fact, meaning Descent still thinks its running 200fps even tho the FPS counter says 60. something vsync is unable to do correctly alone.
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#46
what forcing the full power state for the graphics card does is no different from what a more demanding game would do.  its is perfectly safe to do so, so long as you arent overclocking.  which the command i posted earlier will NOT do under any circumstance unless your BIOS on your card has been messed around with, which im pretty sure is not the case.  that article mentions overclocking but theres is a section that doesnt, thats what we want to look at.

if your gaming on your PC then turning off speedstep and C-states are just good to do any way, especially if you dumped thousands into a extreme performance PC and it doesnt act like it half the time.  computers arent as smart as you think, it cant pick out stuttering and bump up the clocks, it uses the percent of use to gauge the clocks.  DerHass got it right, programs dont/shouldnt try and control power states.

i found that the clocks dont go up on my old laptop with the vsync setting on casuing stuttering, but with it off, it goes up.  confirming its hardware setup, not DXXR!  also, the GFX card vsync setting usually works where DXXR setting does not.  THERE IS NO BUG!  DXXR just isnt heavy enough.

TEST PLATFORMS: (windows power settings set to high performance)

Main Rig: code-IVAN (win7 64)
CPU- Intel i3-3220 3.30 Ghz
GPU- EVGA GTX 570
RAM- 12 GB 1600 Mhz DDR3

Secondary Gaming: code-Joshua (win7 64)
CPU-  Intel Core 2 Duo e7600 3.06 Ghz
GPU- Sapphire Radeon HD 5770
RAM- 4 GB 1066 Mhz DDR3

Gaming Laptop- Lenovo y410p (win7 64)
CPU- Intel i7-4700MQ 2.50 Ghz
GPU- Intel HD 4600 with Optimus Nvidia GT 755M
RAM- 8 GB 1600 Mhz DDR3

Old Laptop- Lenovo Thinkpad R60 (winXP SP2)
CPU- Core Duo T2500 2.00 Ghz
GPU- ATI Mobility Radeon X1400
RAM- 1.5 GB

Old Desktop- Dell Dimension 9200 (winXP SP3)
CPU- Core 2 Duo e6300 1.86 Ghz
GPU- Nvidia Geforce 7300LE
RAM- 1 GB
System IVAN rev 2.0 - Win 7 64bit
Intel i7-3770 4.10 Ghz || EVGA GTX 970 || GSkill Ares 16GB 1600 Mhz || ASUS P8Z77-V LK || Creative Sound Blaster Z || EVGA Supernova P2 850W || Enermax Fulmo Basic

Control Scheme: KEYBOARD DEFAULTS FTW!!
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#47
i agree.
its very possible that DXX is so lightweight it doesnt engage any c-state activity on faster systems. but on slower systems it causes constant spiking and c-state switching. thats why disabling c-state works better on these systems even if its set to the lower c-state setting... it doesnt need the power, it just need c-states to stop switching around all the time.

it would help if DXX was optimized for 60fps Wink  (which it is not)
right now the only so called 'normal' gameplay is vsync off and 200fps. (not very modern)

the EVGA program seems to smooth things out... GPU spiking, CPU spiking, c-state switching, all seem to hold while using the targetframerate option.
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#48
I run with vsync enabled, use a fairly old Radeon graphics card, and have observed no problems.
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#49
(07-14-2014, 09:38 PM)zico link Wrote:do ALL of you experiencing this problem use EVGA cards?

My card is indeed an EVGA card. If it is determined that the subvendor is specifically relevant to this problem, that would be interesting to know.

(07-14-2014, 07:06 PM)ThugsRook link Wrote:i ran a few more tests with the EVGA program. i set 70fps (even tho im using 60hz vsync) and it seemed to be just a little bit smoother. setting 120fps makes it as bad as it was w/o EVGA program.

I tested this with DXX and I am not having the same success as you. It is noticeably worse with a 70 FPS target than at 60, with all of the same problems as when not using Precision X (see below). I'm guessing this is just a difference in hardware between us - I might be able to get better results with something like a 75 or 90 FPS target.

(07-14-2014, 09:57 PM)zico link Wrote:Tho before you were saying you have issues without vsync, too. Is this still truer? Or does dxx run smooth and in constant speed now w/o vsync?

Btw for asll further posts, make sure tomlet me know how the game behaves with and without vsync or externally forced vsync and let me know about your hardware details.

To be clear, DXX stutters for me regardless of whether I enable VSync in-game or externally through the nVidia control panel. Also, I had previously posted that using the control panel option instead of the in-game option was marginally better, in that I my CPU behavior was normal when using the control panel. After having just tested this again though, the CPU stress is there regardless of which option I use, so my prior post was incorrect (not sure what happened there).

I also need to make another important correction from one of my previous posts. I had thought that I was getting GPU clock and voltage spikes coinciding with these VSync issues, however I have been reading my GPU monitor wrong this whole time. I do not have any issues with GPU power spikes while playing DXX, regardless of settings. Very sorry about that and I hope I didn't make the programmer's job harder as a result.

Here's the full rundown for me then, on my 60 Hz monitor:

VSync disabled, Precision X Frame Rate Target disabled:
- In-game monitor shows steady 200 FPS
- No noticeable stuttering during gameplay, though gameplay in general is not entirely smooth
- CPU behavior is normal

VSync disabled, Precision X Frame Rate Target at 60 FPS
- In-game monitor shows steady 60 FPS
- No noticeable stuttering during gameplay, though gameplay in general is not entirely smooth, and also has tearing issues throughout
- CPU behavior is normal

VSync enabled (either in-game or through nVidia control panel), Precision X Frame Rate Target disabled:
- In-game monitor shows steady 60 FPS
- Major stuttering at certain moments (primarily enemies exploding, firing flares, and opening doors)
- One CPU core is locked at 100% load throughout gameplay

VSync enabled (either in-game or through nVidia control panel), Precision X Frame Rate Target enabled at 60 FPS
- In-game monitor shows steady 60 FPS
- Gameplay is smooth with no major stuttering, but with some occasional "hiccups"
- CPU behavior is normal

VSync enabled (either in-game or through nVidia control panel), Precision X Frame Rate Target enabled at 70 FPS
- in-game monitor shows steady 60 FPS
- Major stuttering at certain moments (primarily enemies exploding, firing flares, and opening doors)
- One CPU core is locked at 100% load throughout gameplay

Hardware details:

Win7 Pro 64-bit SP1
ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe mini-ITX mobo
i7 3770K @3.5 GHz
EVGA GTX 680 (337.8Cool
Acer 60 Hz LCD monitor w/ DVI connection
16 GB RAM
Logitech G700 mouse (Firmware 22.37)

If you need more detail on any of my components please let me know.
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#50
i have a EVGA card and it works perfectly.  both the in game setting and the in the control panel.

im beginning to think my R60 has an issue, CPU-z showed the clocks up after changing some speedstep stuff in the bios while vsync was on (either DXX or CCC) and stuttering was 2x as bad, the frame counter hovering around 60-70 FPS.  and that was with CPU-z reporting 12x (6-12) and 1.99ghz.  so im thinking its an XP SP2 issue.  but its smooth and very satisfying with no vsync at all, not even tearing which amazes me.  theres another opengl game that works fine with vsync, armagetron advanced, so i know its not an issue with vsync on my gfx card.

one more thing, Flang, does turning on 4x multisampling or the anisotropic setting improve anything?  that would add lots of load on your CPU and might keep things stable.  and turn on some enhancements on in your Nvidia CP for that program, like antialiasing to add load on the GPU.
System IVAN rev 2.0 - Win 7 64bit
Intel i7-3770 4.10 Ghz || EVGA GTX 970 || GSkill Ares 16GB 1600 Mhz || ASUS P8Z77-V LK || Creative Sound Blaster Z || EVGA Supernova P2 850W || Enermax Fulmo Basic

Control Scheme: KEYBOARD DEFAULTS FTW!!
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