[bzr] Light shines through doors
#71
Well how much a new lighting system will influence the CPU I currently cannot say. I am playing with different techniques and it's interesting as well to work on that. Specifically since it requires a lot of tricks to work proberly on this engine. That fascinates me.
If a possible new system would get too performance hungry, this feature would be an optional switch in the Graphics options.

However you do have a point and I agree with it: "Why change this at all if it always worked like that?"
Mainly it's because now with colored lighting people saw HOW the lighting actually works but never noticed it before. Secondly some also think they get disadvantages in Multiplayer if one is able to see light from weapons in a different room. Especially since the color of the light also points to the weapon used.

Actually what makes me work on this is part of your argument for the original lighting - turned for the worse:
In D2 Level 1 you have a secret room in the floor visible from your starting point. You see a blue glow there that points to shield powerups. If you collect those however you will see that the blue glow will not go away totally. This is because in the "ceiling" of the room with the red key there is a nother secret room containing shiedl powerups. And that is what you see on your starting location. So in this case this original lighting does not help - it rather confuses.
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#72
In the original game, I think the glow from shield powerups visible through walls and secret doors is an intentional hint about their existence.  (Of course, I know that colored light makes this more noticeable.)  In a few cases, the glow from powerups in 2 different locations can confuse, as you point out, but does that mean the game should be changed to remove this "hint" completely?

I think it is a fact that by introducing colored light to the game, this visual enhancement has also enhanced stuff like being able to more easily identify weapons types (by light color) firing in nearby rooms.  I think this result of colored light is fine, since in descent light is supposed to penetrate the walls.  The only difference is that now we can see the colors of the light.

If this colored light makes it too easy to know about weapons in adjacent rooms in multiplayer, why don't they just shut off colored light?

Maybe all that is needed to satisfy everyone and maintain the original lighting is a new Multiplayer advanced option for the game host: "Allow Colored Light".  If unchecked, in order to join the multiplayer game the player must shut off colored light.

This option would also have one more benefit: it would allow colorblind players to participate in multiplayer games on a "level playing field."
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#73
I would rather not want to limit graphical settings in Multiplayer to be honest. I prefer freedom in my config over Multiplayer competition. That is my stance to that.

Anyways one of the concepts of lighting included visibility checks. That was one of my first solutions and actually it was already in the original source - just disabled due to performance reasons. This will only illuminate parts of the level which are visible to the light. "Indirect" light however will be almost completely eliminated. On the bright side (no pun intended) this way of doing it cannot deal with 2D planes (doors and normal 2D walls) correctly. So if a door is lit from one side, the other side will light up, too since both sides share the same vertecies.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
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#74
I'm quite sure you'll make the best decision on lighting, based on your conservative "philosophy" about the game!  Smile
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#75
Yes yes! Remove colored lighting! [/troll]

Seriously, it's really hard to imagine how the new lighting will look. You only imagine what you miss from what you already see, but naturally overlook what might be added as impressions. About Rebirths philosophy: the way I understand it, it is WAY far from conservative; that's not the point. There is a good reason we tread extremely cautiously when introducing new elements into the game, and that's because the game conveys an idea and game-play that is immensely and impressionistically unique to say the least. In "fear" of spoiling this original idea PLUS impressions, whether it was originally intended OR NOT*, we try not to touch the game too much. However this is to be interpreted as a method of approach of development, not a final result. Which means, whatever changes give the game the same appeal-endresult, or even improve it in a revolutionary in the game's context manner, is positive and added into the game. There is a reason the game feels the way it feels, and upgrading it in terms of graphics and straightforward game modes/elements are only conventional changes that spoil the sport. Non-trivial things like a simple coloured lighting or transparency, which are insultingly simple, might upgrade a game in a way that it feels better, for what it already is.

My point is: the new lighting planned might add to the game in a way we cannot imagine; or it might not, like you said lloyd. For example, in trying to imagine, I for see how it would look opening a door, suddenly shedding light into a darkened room, instead of permanently shining through the door**. And what not. Plus the enjoyment of slightly better accuracy. Which might turn into a spectacle INSIDE Descent's universe/context/atmosphere etc. That is how I see Rebirth's philosophy. So in these terms, it's definitely to be tried, should there time be available to spent on that, and if the resources problem is solved...

*like we photography we judge by result: not matter if the photographer was just lucky, random, or really worked their way into a photo, if the photo is a marvel, it stays that way, even after we know how the photographer shot it.
**seldom seen in most default levels of Descent, as lit rooms (on the other side) usually have doors escorted with light strips
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#76
It's true, Trent, that my suggestion that the original lighting be maintained is based on reticence to change.  We (or I, to speak only for myself) love the game the way it is, and fear that some of the original charm might be lost with a change in lighting.*  But as you very wisely pointed out, the planned change "might add to the game in a way we cannot imagine...."  Trusting that a major change in the way the game "feels" would not be accepted, you've convinced me that it would be a good thing to try the new lighting scheme. 

However, it remains very important to me that the game run well (as it currently does) on modest hardware.  I'm glad to know that if this lighting change adds greatly to the CPU load of the game, it will be optional.

* On the other hand, colored lighting itself was quite a big change, and in my opinion adds greatly to the enjoyment of the game
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