[bzr] Light shines through doors
#21
OK, I see what you mean. This indeed can be distracting. If I understood correctly, zicos fix will take care of that but leave the door effects as they are. In that case, I'm all for it. Smile
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#22
Well we must also consider that this lighting does easily spoil secrets.

Take D2 level 1 for example:
Just towards your starting position there is a secret door on the floor leading to shield powerups. Their light affect the floor. It's very easily visible with Colored Lights on. With the "normal" lighting code (the one we have now - the whole floor glows blue slightly.
With the improved lighting it's not sod bad anymore but the secret door itself and the joining edges still glow blue and gives a pretty good hint that a secret is located here.

This is all just a question of realism vs. performance. The line can be VERY slim however and whatever step I'll take I must be very careful to make this code highly optimizable.

EDIT:
As we are on the door-realism topic let me ask some more questions please. Smile
1) Are the doors hermetically sealed? If yes, that could explain that no light could go through.
2) Why does weapon fire actually open doors? Do the doors have a similar nervous system to the eyes of a slug?
3) In that regard why does MY and the Guide Bot's fire open the doors but bots are unable to?
4) When we fire at doors or walls in general, why are there no scorch marks?
5) Why are doors thin as paper but even my Earthshaker missiles cannot blast them away?

Of course I only do this for the laughs but in general I also want to point to the actual level of realism in the game.
Still the issue in this topic is a very valid one.

The game just bases on vertex lighting - i.e. the edge points of the cubes in a level. Still these edge points can be connected to up to 4 different cubes. This actually causes this "light shines through doors" issue. However based on this system we do have the ability to case more soft light to edges of these sides/walls that are not directly in sight of the light source. Fixing door issues might affect that as well and regarding the level od detail in the levels itself it might look a bit more choppy from there on. So this is what I laso gotta address in the future.
Asi said before there are a bunch of solutions to make lighting more realistic - also with doors - but I really gotta pay attention that the system requirements do not jump from ~150Mhz to 1,5Ghz. Just look at the comparison Screenshot again (three posts above) and compare the FPS values both screens show.

This almost makes a reason for true OpenGL lighting (which would still increase the demands on your graphcis chip however) while I'd STILL tend to let the main game engine work independent from OpenGL as long as the whole "3D accelleration" is still ruled by monopoly and not every device does have the necessary capabilities.

Anyways I hope you can understand why I will rather pay attention to this while developing 0.58 instead of rushing this into the last days of the 0.57 development cycle.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
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#23
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I just had a look at D2 Lvl. 1 with colored lights on and have to agree that the blue glow is very visible. Too visible, perhaps.
Whatever solution will be implemented in 0.58, I hope the light flashes when a door is shot from the other side will still be visible to some extent since, as I said, I think it adds realism and also it looks cool. Cool
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#24
Well the light "through door" works with the same "logic" as the effect you see at the secret door in D2 level 1. So whatever I do, it'll affect both cases in a similar fashion. The question how "far" light spreads also always depends to the structure of the level itself.

Only thing what the improved lighting would to to that blue glow in D2 lvl 1 would to limit the blue glow much more to the area where the secret door is - i.e. lighting the door itself and adding a little fade on the joining sides. So it would not affect the WHOLE room anymore but pretty much show you *where* the door is.

What I can do to fight this is to reduce the powerup lighting back to normal. For colored light eye-candy the brightness of some powerups that were very dark (shield orbs) was increased to a certain degree. Reducing this back to normal would probably fix this effect - escept if energy powerups hide behind a door - these are very bright in the first place.

I also have idea on how to fix these door issues pretty easily. But that would be a perspectual correction that COULD possibly cause little inconsistencies in the Guidebot/Guided-missile display (if not in main window) which might be VERY hard to notice. In that example the code could easily check if a door is spposed to light up at all based on your and the light source position. Of course this solution would not work perfectly for the cockpit window views at all the time.
(I'll probably side with this solution tho as all possible negative side-effects will be minor compared to all other solutions)

EDIT:
I probably should not write too much here already as all possible solutions are still in planning but I always would like to hear your Feedback as in the end you gotta live with it. So consider this another brainstorming session. Smile
Also please note that I do not try to talk myself out here: Descent COULD have pretty realistic light. But as stated earlier this is mostly a question of performance. Also I'd like to keep the lighting as "original" as possible as well so you don't feel too alienated with any solution I'll come up with. These are the most important terms for me.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
Uhm... Honey, there's a head in the toilet!
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#25
As I said before...the MAIN problem with the lighting right now (In my opinion) is when you're in a tunnel, and lights flash on the walls while people are shooting in an adjacent tunnel. That's really the only lighting "issue" that I would think should be improved Smile
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#26
Actually the prevention of impossible light flashing is a very good step forward. Indeed it would be some kind of feature, if the light wouldn't shine at impossible places at all, but remember, that it shouldn't be too much work or code or whatever.

And maybe the lightned doors aren't that bad, if you could somehow prevent only the shining through it, not the glowing of the door itself.
Optimisten sind Pessimisten, die nicht alle Fakten kennen.
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#27
My only thought is that if you were to block light from shining through doors, you still have to allow it through doors that have holes in them (grills, etc).
(not all doors were created equal).

--

Be Alert, The World Needs More Lerts
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#28
Currently I am not aware of levels that make use of such doors (except the prison/Guidebot doors but they are more "destroyable walls")... you are talking about some custom levels, right? As it may be: I will consider such cases anyways - if a texture has transparent parts, the light will go through.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
Uhm... Honey, there's a head in the toilet!
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#29
Quote:Currently I am not aware of levels that make use of such doors (except the prison/Guidebot doors but they are more "destroyable walls")... you are talking about some custom levels, right? As it may be: I will consider such cases anyways - if a texture has transparent parts, the light will go through.

Actually there is one particular grated door. Remember Secret Level 5? The one with the reactor countdown? It had such grated doors.

Here it is: [Image: DOOR34.GIF]

:afro:


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#30
Oh man my memories really trick me here. That's what you get if you ONLY develop but never really play. Big Grin
Sure you are right.

But as said, textures like this will let the light through with no problems. Depending on how much light fits through here we could do a bit more light reduction but doing that I depend on how much additional performance I need to archive this effect. The side lighting itself is not very detailed anyways (and will not be) so chances are light reduction does not make much sense.
The greatest pleasure in life is to do what people say you cannot do.
Uhm... Honey, there's a head in the toilet!
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